Be Sure to visit the store to see whats new

Author Topic: NOE 311-230 GC 30-378 Weatherby for "Reduced" Long Range?  (Read 499 times)

torpedox64

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Noe Guest
    • View Profile
NOE 311-230 GC 30-378 Weatherby for "Reduced" Long Range?
« on: July 24, 2018, 02:46:42 AM »
Well the title kinda spells out the basic Question. Hard Cast water drop "Wheel Weight" Teflon based "High tech" spray coated oven bake 450° 15 min water drop. Copper Gas Check!  Weatherby 30-378 Wby Mag Cases.
Ok,,,,,,, I have the bullets Cast, sized .310 with gas checks Preped as described above. What I need is  Load / Powder suggestions. I would like to get between 2,300 Fps to 2,500 Fps range with this bullet, But this is a Huge Case, and I believe this would be a great med/ long range Practice Bullet. The Manufacturer of the spray coating guaranteed me that it would not "Lead" the Rifling as long as the Rifling didn't "Strip" the bullet!
So I'm looking for a starting place, with this idea, because there has to be a way to make a "cheaper" mousetrap! 500- 800 yd targets and steel.  The thing is, I want to shoot this Rifle more, but $4.00 /$8.00 ea. Is Tough! If I can Cast for this Monster of an over/under bore wharever term you prefer,  that would save a ton of money!
In the "Old Days" we used to stuff oatmeal, or dacron "Filling" to make "Reduced" loads, and Yes I realize the Dangers of many Powders in reduced loads, but to be honest, I "Could"  probably fill a case with Trailboss,,compress it in, and it will probably shoot ok ( but there has to be a better way,  I was thinking a powder between Reloader 17 and 25?
Too fast, too Slow?  Ideas?  I have a bunch of Accurate Arms 4350 that I would love to use up!  Thanks!
This Rifle really likes 220 grain Hornady ELD over 101.5gn BMG50 powder, bullet length, magazine clearance. ( Really long throat in the Wby)  3,070 fps avg.  15ft from Muzzle!  Sandbags on Chrono tripod to keep it from blowing over! (Pretty flimsy I must confess)
Over the last 30 Years + I Have done my share of Load development, and testing, but This Girl IS NEW TO ME!     
  Ok I'll Shut up now.
I can add pictures if this goes anywhere.    THANKS!
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 03:19:59 AM by torpedox64 »

torpedox64

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Noe Guest
    • View Profile
Re: NOE 311-230 GC 30-378 Weatherby for "Reduced" Long Range?
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2018, 11:47:50 PM »
Nobody?  ??? 
Any Input or opinion is welcome!  Just trying to kick ideas around.  I guess I will try some "slightly" reduced "start" loads, for bullets of maching weight, and see how it goes.  My "ultimate" result would be 180 Grain, 30-06 Velocities (2750 fps or lower), from this 230 Grain pill!  I know thats fast for cast, but I'm too interested, to NOT try. And I am certain that pressures wont be nearly as high as with jacketed, and My guess is that its going to produce an awesome muzzle flash, because it will Not be able to build enough internal pressure to burn All that powder!
Any opinions as to Powder selection, (known dangerous powders in underload ect.) [ie. W296 and H110 are Not suited for REDUCED loads in the .44 Mag!]
Just looking for feedback, even if to tell me I'm a Fool, or going to blow myself up or Anything, but Please Explain Why.
Thanks!

cornmastah

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1386
  • Collector
    • View Profile
Re: NOE 311-230 GC 30-378 Weatherby for "Reduced" Long Range?
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2018, 08:12:17 PM »
I wonder if A5744 would be a good powder to use.  I've used it in my 45-70's and 30-06 before.  It is a powder that doesn't mind a bit of air space in the case and doesn't require the use of fillers.  I haven't played with the 30-378W cartridge before, but I think you could probably accomplish the same thing with cast bullets in a 30-06.

Well the title kinda spells out the basic Question. Hard Cast water drop "Wheel Weight" Teflon based "High tech" spray coated oven bake 450° 15 min water drop. Copper Gas Check!  Weatherby 30-378 Wby Mag Cases.
Ok,,,,,,, I have the bullets Cast, sized .310 with gas checks Preped as described above. What I need is  Load / Powder suggestions. I would like to get between 2,300 Fps to 2,500 Fps range with this bullet, But this is a Huge Case, and I believe this would be a great med/ long range Practice Bullet. The Manufacturer of the spray coating guaranteed me that it would not "Lead" the Rifling as long as the Rifling didn't "Strip" the bullet!
So I'm looking for a starting place, with this idea, because there has to be a way to make a "cheaper" mousetrap! 500- 800 yd targets and steel.  The thing is, I want to shoot this Rifle more, but $4.00 /$8.00 ea. Is Tough! If I can Cast for this Monster of an over/under bore wharever term you prefer,  that would save a ton of money!
In the "Old Days" we used to stuff oatmeal, or dacron "Filling" to make "Reduced" loads, and Yes I realize the Dangers of many Powders in reduced loads, but to be honest, I "Could"  probably fill a case with Trailboss,,compress it in, and it will probably shoot ok ( but there has to be a better way,  I was thinking a powder between Reloader 17 and 25?
Too fast, too Slow?  Ideas?  I have a bunch of Accurate Arms 4350 that I would love to use up!  Thanks!
This Rifle really likes 220 grain Hornady ELD over 101.5gn BMG50 powder, bullet length, magazine clearance. ( Really long throat in the Wby)  3,070 fps avg.  15ft from Muzzle!  Sandbags on Chrono tripod to keep it from blowing over! (Pretty flimsy I must confess)
Over the last 30 Years + I Have done my share of Load development, and testing, but This Girl IS NEW TO ME!     
  Ok I'll Shut up now.
I can add pictures if this goes anywhere.    THANKS!

torpedox64

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Noe Guest
    • View Profile
Re: NOE 311-230 GC 30-378 Weatherby for "Reduced" Long Range?
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2018, 09:03:17 AM »
Thanks for responding Cornmastah, I will ckeck into that, in the meantime I have had some Very encouraging rusults with the NOE 230 gn. And between 50-57 grains of Accurate 4350 CCI Mag primers and tight packed Dacron filler. I had planned to Chrono several this week but the weather (fires and smoke) kept me inside, loading, and stepping outside to fire a few, occasionally.  The loads are Mild compared to "Normal" loads for sure, but I'm going to guess, it's in the 2000-2200 fps  and has the recoil of a 30-30 with the brake on!
So far I'm getting the impression that it dosn't "want" much more Acc 4350 than this, because the "back blast" from the muzzle brake "feels Dirty" above 55 grains, and there is an increase in "smoke". In My rifle 53 grains seems to be the "sweet spot", and according to a couple of manuals I have, this is a good start load for the 300 win. Mag, But the Chrono will tell the real story.   No accuracy testing at all, just testing for pressure signs, and ignition, and so far everything has been completely acceptable! Crono and accuracy is next, and will keep this updated!   SO FAR SO GOOD! 8)

torpedox64

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Noe Guest
    • View Profile
Re: NOE 311-230 GC 30-378 Weatherby for "Reduced" Long Range?
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2018, 06:19:37 AM »
Ok, I got to do a "little" chronograph time. Very Little. Crono 10 feet from muzzle, just firing through the screens no specific target. (fence post approx. 400yds out from my shooting pos.) all I can say is that they were lining up with it, but falling quite short of my aiming point, but that was of course expected. I don't want any outside influences, effecting my readings, so I am allowing 10 minutes between firings, to allow my rifle to get close to room temeperature for each new shot. [I normally like to give it at least a few minutes of cooling time between shots, but I want to be sure that any variation in velocities, is due to the loading and not a cool vs hot rifle] 
Needless to say that makes shooting and record taking SLOW. (4). with 54.1 grains of Acc. 4350 and only (3) with 50 grains.
so far the Average vel. for 54.1 is 2211 fps w/ ex. spread of 126 fps. I fired the larger loads first to check for leading (No signs so far!)
At this rate I was going to lose light so I decided to go to the 50 grain loads, and of the [three] so far,, Av. Vel. 2116 E.S. of only 53 FPS!
I know this is Very limited data so far, but Very Encouraging! Very Light signs of pressure on the primer, like you find on a mild factory 30-06 load.  plenty of room to go up for sure, but the lower charge weights May be where the "Sweet Spot" is. Everytime I testfired these loads, the Lower charge weights just "Felt" like the Rifle was happy, but as I got to the 54 grain, she seemed to start shooting dirtier, and was not as "happy" feeling. I Know that "means" Nothing scientifical, but after many years of this, you can "Tell" when a Firearm "likes" a particular load. I "eventually" want to get through at least 20 of each of these rounds, to be sure of Leading effects, and looking for the lowest SD, Then, I want to experiment to see the effects of different "filler" Materials. (Memory Foam Ear plugs?) to my "thinking" and I am No Ballistition, but the Point of the filler is to Hold the powder against the primer, for "location" issues inside such a Gigantic Case.
But, is there any effect from the density of such common fillers as Dacron. Does it help to be Packed tightly as I did,(my thinking, is that it "holds" the powder charge, and "Must" be Consumed from Rear of the Cartridge-Forward, ensuring "Even" Ignition through the firing cycle.  All Loads use Magnum Primers.  one of the reasons I feel that the lower charges are going to be "better" it that when I fire the 54 grain loads, you can feel micro "fibres" floating around, that makes me think they are Not being consumed as fully, with the larger charge of powder to ''Try'' to burn as well, at these much lower pressures. Thoughts? Suggestions?   just for fun I Crono'ed a new full power Hornady 180 grain SST #30702 107 grains Retumbo CCI 250 Weatherby Case. 3341 fps.  not too shabby. So far.

torpedox64

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Noe Guest
    • View Profile
Re: NOE 311-230 GC 30-378 Weatherby for "Reduced" Long Range?
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2018, 11:56:17 PM »
Quite a bit to updated, Some Great, some maybe not so great, I'll let You guys be the judge.  I'm tempted to skip the not so great, but "Science" won't let me.
Ok, got to Crono 10, at ten+ minutes of cool down to "room temp" 72° f.  Between int. Clouds and "Dacron" flying around the Chrono "read" only 6 of the 10 rounds fired. This is the "Not so great" part, this stuff sucks, in anything other than Small charges in big pistols, but I feel due to the muzzle brakes "blowing" the fibres everywhere, makes its use UNACCEPTABLE!   But here are the Crono readings anyway, the charges are "working fine" in My opinion though.
1. 2214 fps
2. No reading
3. 2160
4. 2185
5. 2240
6. 2326
7. 2143.   8. - 9. - 10.  No readings
Av. Vel. 2211fps.   ES. 183fps.  SD. 66
Not bad,,,,,  more shots would of course be needed to get better stats.    But again Dacron as a Packing Sucks!   UNACCEPTABLE! :-\ 

torpedox64

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Noe Guest
    • View Profile
Re: NOE 311-230 GC 30-378 Weatherby for "Reduced" Long Range?
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2018, 01:13:58 AM »
Now for the SURPRISE and Delight!
We have been Overlooking the BEST PACKING MATERIAL I HAVE USED IN REDUCED LOADS!
If You are like me, I don't Shoot, without at least those foam earplugs. I buy them by the Box, and have thrown the old ones away forever. DON'T!  Save them in a jar. They are the BEST "Spacer" Material I have used so far! Bar None!   I kept thinking there had to be something that could "firmly" hold the Powder against the Primer to allow for consistant, controlled Ignition, and expansion of the gasses in a "Back to front" direction!  (Just as a pressure tank in a plumbing system.)
I ran a few experiments, like burning, and crushing with hammer and anvil, and those little Ear Plugs leave a bit of black ash (not sticky) and virtually dissapear when hit with a hammer.
So this Next string of Chrono. Shots, are useing All the same peramiters of loading, "Except", Each Case, got a single foam "Ear plug" rolled up and set inside the "neck" of the case bottom side down, with just the tip visible in the case neck. I allowed it to expand, then pushed it down against the Powder charge,(case standing up) then allowed it a couple minutes to expand, then repeated With A Second Ear Plug, on Top of the Other. When fully expanded, the tip of the second Ear Plug, is "flush with the base of the neck. Perfect!
Upon firing, there is NO EVIDENCE of those Ear Plugs, My "Guess" is that they are simply being "Vaporized" After doing their "Job" Flawlessly! 
Only 5 rounds fired in this test as they were just for My own "Curiosity"  Weatherby 30-378 cases FL sized CCI 250 mag Primer, 50 grains Acc. 4350 2 Foam Ear Plugs.
1. 1984.      2. 2002.   3. 1966  4. 2014   5. 1990 fps
Ave. Vel. 1991
E.S. 48
S.D. 18
As stated before, No trace of the Ear Plugs, Inside, or Outside of the barrel!    I realize this is just the Start, of a New avenue of testing, but these last results, have Me very excited!
As a " Starting" Charge, Acc. 4350 in the 30-378 Weatherby Magnum, is 49 grains. 55 grains was Perfectly Safe in My Rifle, with the Crappy Dacron, and I will be Working My Way Up from My 50 grain start charge!
A much larger test sample will be needed to see if the Stellar Consitency Continues.  Accuracy Will Come later.
 Give Ear Plugs a Try, as "Filler for your Shells, as well as Your Ears!
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 01:17:59 AM by torpedox64 »

torpedox64

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Noe Guest
    • View Profile
Re: NOE 311-230 GC 30-378 Weatherby for "Reduced" Long Range?
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2018, 08:49:20 PM »
Ok,  getting to do quite a bit of Testing today.   I had loaded 18 cases with 51.0 gn. Acc4350, and packed Dacron. Even though I have decided that Dacron in Such a LARGE case is unacceptable for so many other reasons, LACK OF ANY ACCURACY WHAT SO EVER, is the nail in That coffin!  The Pressures and consistancy of velocity are Impressive in Anyones book!  But at a Hundred yards 8"+ is not Even going to Work.  It could be that I'm not driving it fast enough to stabilize it 1-10 in the Weatherby.  At a hundred yards, with a Hornady 220gn. ELD-X driven at 3200 fps a single ragged hole is the norm for 5 rounds IF I do My part.  These are So consistant, that either it's spin rate, or the Dacron!  I Will find out!  My next set of testing,(hopefully today), will show. They are All useing foam "Ear Plugs" as filler.
Anyway here is the last set of numbers useing 51.0gn. Acc 4350 230gn cast NOE with Dacron! Yuk!
1. 2154fps    2. 2076    3. 2133    4. 2113    5. 2106    6. 2119    7. 2089    8. 2136   9. 2129    10. 2150
11. 2048      12. 2026    13. 2093    14.  2070
Average velocity.  2102
E.S. 128.    S.D. 36 fps!      Impressive for such a small amount of powder in such a giant case, or any load in any Case!   On with the testing.

torpedox64

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Noe Guest
    • View Profile
Re: NOE 311-230 GC 30-378 Weatherby for "Reduced" Long Range?
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2018, 12:04:59 AM »
The curveballs that Life can throw, can be some of the most horiffic events of all!  Saturday the 10th, as I was having one of the most enjoyable days of shooting, testing and recording my results, that I have had in Many years, less than 20 miles from me, a young man decided to take his own life, with a handgun.  He was the life long, best friend of My youngest son. Only 23 years old, and was one of the Finest young men, that I have ever known! I cannot picture any important events in My Son's life where his Best Friend Jessico, was not there!
NOBODY SAW IT COMMING!  NO outward visible signs that he was in pain, or suffering in any way!
He left behind a Loving Mother and Father, brothers and sisters, and More Friends and Family then He apparently realized!  And he left QUESTIONS!  Nothing else.
PLEASE TALK TO YOUR CHILDREN. LET THEM KNOW YOU LOVE AND SUPPORT THEM!  And that ANY deep dark secret, is NEVER WORTH THEIR LIFE!  Firearms make it "EASY" and as Firearms Owners, we owe it to our children to go out of our way, to impress upon them that NOTHING would stop You from loving them, no matter what!  But SUICIDE IS NEVER AN OPTION!
Jessico, I love you, you will be missed, but You Knew Better!    1995 - 2018
It will probably be a while before I get back to my testing, but Accuracy is Terrible! (Minute of barn door), I'm guessing they are not going fast enough to stabilize,, YET!     I'm Not giving up!

cornmastah

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1386
  • Collector
    • View Profile
Re: NOE 311-230 GC 30-378 Weatherby for "Reduced" Long Range?
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2018, 05:12:51 PM »
Sorry to hear about that tragedy.  That's a tough one.

Fat Albert

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Noe Guest
    • View Profile
Re: NOE 311-230 GC 30-378 Weatherby for "Reduced" Long Range?
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2018, 01:50:47 AM »
found load data for 210 cast/30-378w in the Lyman 4th book. Ran it in QL and got reference number (Ba) for the max load w/AA5744, it was 1.0460 and a QL pressure of 33073 PSI ?? I then entered your bullet with the bullet seated at 3.767" oal and the Ba number--change the load and found the same PSI. At the same pressure as the Lyman load(33110), 45.9gr of AA5744 was 2193fps for your bullet. If bullet is seated to 3.750" oal, 45.8gr of 5744  would be 33090psi @ 2193.

Fat Albert

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Noe Guest
    • View Profile
Re: NOE 311-230 GC 30-378 Weatherby for "Reduced" Long Range?
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2018, 05:55:05 AM »
I just ran the Noe 311-230 GC bullet thought McGowen Barrels twist rate calculator. It said that the bullet is stable down to 1580fps with 1/10". The  calculator factors in what the bullet is made of.    Here it is   http://mcgowenbarrel.com/twist2/ 

 



Castpics and Reloader's Reference