Twist Rate and Velocity Loss

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  • #488381
    rsterne
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      I have heard that fast twist barrels severely reduce the muzzle velocity…. Here is an article about PB tests done by Brian Litz, famous for his ballistics research on various subjects….

      http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2015/02/does-barrel-twist-rate-affect-muzzle-velocity-litz-test/

      The mathematical prediction was a loss of only 1.25 fps per inch decrease in twist rate, backed up by tests…. There was about an 8 fps loss going from a 12″ twist down to an 8″ twist with 175 gr. .308 cal bullets at 2650 fps…. This was actually less than the SD of the samples….

      I know this test was with a PB, but the math says results for an airgun should be similar…. Certainly the theory says we do not need to worry about losing too much performance with faster twist rates….

      Bob

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    • #501145
      rsterne
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        I thought I would place some numbers on the amount of rotational energy in a bullet…. I chose one I was interested in, the .257 cal 113 gr. BBT, which requires a 7″ twist…. I won’t bore you with all the math, but here is the amount of kinetic energy stored in the rotation of the bullet at three different twist rates at 1000 fps muzzle velocity….

        14″ twist…. 0.42 FPE
        10″ twist…. 0.81 FPE
        7″ twist…. 1.66 FPE

        This energy has to come from the expanding air, so that is the amount of energy lost compared to a smooth bore barrel…. so the difference between a 7″ twist and a 14″ twist is 1.24 FPE…. At 1000 fps, the energy of the bullet is 250 FPE, so the expected energy loss would be about 1/2%…. Even if an equal amount of energy goes into heat and other losses, the reduction in velocity to be expected would only be about 1/2%, or about 5 fps….

        I know this is just a math model, but it does agree quite well with the test results above for a PB…. This would lead me to suggest that any large velocity losses experienced by airgun shooters when they increase the twist rate is due to some other factor, not the twist….

        Bob

        #501146
        thierryaudibert
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          Hello Bob,
          thanks for this explanation, have you an idea where airgun loss so much velocity when we go to quicker twist rate?
          there is a way to solve this problem?

          higher shoot pressure can solve this? at the price of number of shoot i suppose.

          does someone have an example of velocity loss on airgun platform

          Thank you in advance

          Thierry

          #501147
          rsterne
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            Some people say that airguns lose a lot of velocity with a faster twist rate…. while others say there is no measureable difference…. The math says the latter, and I happen to believe that those who are experiencing a velocity loss with a faster twist barrel have some other factor that is causing it (most likely diameter or rifling depth)…. The articles I sited above supports that position…. This is one of those things that for now, until we have a lot more data, you simply have to try it and see….

            Bob

            #501148
            rsterne
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              I thought I would update this thread with a bit of personal experience using a fast twist barrel…. My .257 Monocoque was designed to use the 100 gr. and 113 gr. NOE Bob’s Boattails, which are designed for an 8″ and 7″ twist respectively…. Since the barrel supplier I deal with, TJ’s of Kentucky, only had 10 and 14″ twist available in that caliber, I asked Mike to make a mandrel for a 7″ twist with a 0.257″ groove and 0.250″ land…. He agreed, but decided that with such a fast twist, and using cast bullets, he should make the rifling deeper, so decided to make the barrel with a 0.248″ land diameter…. He sent me a barrel, and it was at that point he told me what he had done…. I was pretty concerned that the deeper rifling, with the limited power available in an airgun, wouldn’t achieve the velocities I was after…. He said “trust me, if it doesn’t work, I’ll do another mandrel and replace the barrel”…. I’m glad I did….

              I recently completed the gun, and at 4000 psi it shoots the 113 gr. bullet at over 950 fps, and the 100 gr. at over 1000 fps, which met all my hopes and dreams…. I have set the gun up to be tethered to a regulator set at 3800 psi, at just over 200 FPE, and tuned to shoot a 4 shot string off tether…. The 3rd shot of the string is the same velocity as with it tethered, and occurs at just under 3500 psi on air…. At that pressure, the gun is still capable of achieving over 200 FPE, shooting 900 fps with the 113 gr. FN, and 960 fps with the 98 gr. HP version of the lighter bullet…. It does this with bullets sized to 0.257″ or 0.256″, but is about 20 fps slower if they are sized (oversize) to 0.258″…. Although I don’t have a slower twist barrel to compare this to, there is certainly nothing wrong with this performance…. I would say that fast twist barrels, if they are required to stabilize long, heavy bullets, can still be handled just fine by modern PCP airguns….

              Bob

              #501149
              thierryaudibert
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                Hello Bob thank you for share your experience.

                Thierry

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