30-06 powder choices

My go to powders for my Springfield’s and cast are Vihtavuori N110 and N120.

Never had any success with powder coated bullets beyond 1000 fps in any gun, I stick with lube/sizing as well as 45-45-10 coating for low velocity, less messy and quicker for me and gives superior results.

Good morning Sir. Thank you for some suggestions. I will certainly look into those powders. Never tried any from Vihtavouri before but have wanted to for some pistol applications a while back. I think my next powder order I will get a couple pounds to try out. Thank you again for the recommendation.

I switched from all the American branded powders over 15 years ago because of the unreliability of supply here in the UK.

I switched all my calibres and loads to Vihtavuori powders and in all cases they performed as well if not better than the original powders I was using.

I have always been leary of the extra price, but I can not say I have ever heard a fellow shooter say they did not like the Vihtavuori powders, pistols and rifle loads if they were already a user of it.
I’m still in the searching zone, trying to find more consistency.
In my own research I was looking at maybe trying A1680 or H-4895, then I began reading so many conflicting articles that I felt I needed to start again looking somewhere else.
Just when I thought I knew what I was doing, now I kinda feel lost. I do not have extra money to get several powders, so I’m limited to maybe 2 or 3 new to try.
I started looking up data for the n110 and n120 and noticed the case fill must be fairly low. Are you using any type of filler? Just wondering as another flag came up, as I was told to never use fillers in bottle neck cartridges. Then again, I’ve seen many use Dacron and love it.
I know you have a lot more experience and knowledge, so I do value your insights and findings.
Are you using standard primers also? Thank you for the help.

Standard primers and no filler, not a fan of fillers as it is just another complication and never really found the need. If I am getting evidence vertical stringing then I will go to the next fastest powder. N110 and N120 are fast rifle powders in the Alliant 2400 IMR 4198 zone so ignite easily. Interestingly N110 which is faster than N120 has the greater fill density of the two.

Good to know the powder lights well. I was hoping to stay with my regular WLR primers. I hope you do not mind me picking a few tips from your brain. It is helpful.
When I first started a few months back looking into a new powder to try for my 30/06 rifle, I found my lack of experience in the cast boolit road has got me to this stumbling point. Differences between fast and slow burning powders and what is best. Fmj I can do well, but I am not there yet in the cast world and my rifle loads.
Do you find one powder over the other worked best for lighter grained boolits and another for the heavier variety?
I have one NOE mold (311-198-sp, 311365) in particular I’m wanting to make shoot like it does when I’m sleeping, ha ha.
I first went with ramshot big game as I’m a big fan of the ramshot powders in my pistols and ruger 204, and it’s a slower burning powder. I’m not sure it’s right for the application. I also have tried accurate 5744, and it was alright, but I’m looking for better.
Again, I appreciate your time and tips.

Mike

Really need to know what velocities you are seeking to achieve along with alloy type and hardness/malleability.

For light bullets out to 100 yrds I like fast pistol powders such as N320.

have you read the Ed Harris’s “CAST BULLET LOADS FOR MILITARY RIFLES” sticky at the top of this forum? It is the seminal text on cast bullet loading and powder selection.

As you are no doubt aware loading for cast requires a totally different approach and mind set to loading and shooting jacketed, generally speaking loads are not transferable.

Good morning,
During my own research prior to posting my question I did see that posting or part of it on another website. It has an enormous amount of information there.
After you mentioned the sticky, I found the post and read it again. Thank you for that.
I guess I had a pipe dream I could re-invent the wheel so to speak with powder coating and higher velocities. I’ve been so impressed so far in my pistol applications, I though it was possible. I was not looking for top jacketed speeds but something closer to that level then the under 2000 fps of the traditional lube, alox variety lubes, etc.
My plan was to have a nice 150 grain for plinking and light deer hunting. I live in Northern California and the deer here are fairly small ( 90-110 pounds dressed).
A good 180 grain load for longer range and larger game, and lastly as close to precision 190-195 grain 600 yard target loads.
Nothing to crazy but was looking to find a good case filled powder, decent speeds without leading and less drop at the longer ranges. Maybe it’s not possible.

Thank you again for all your help and tips. I appreciate that Sir. Have a wonderful rest of your day.

Most of my rifle shooting is done out to 600 yrds and my velocities are in 1800-2000 fps region, I don’t worry too much about the trajectory as I am shooting at known differences.

I tried coating for the same reasons but have never achieved accuracy with it, at the end of the day it is coating not a traditional “lube”, even then the lubing function of “lubed” bullets is the least important part of its contribution to cast bullet accuracy. Coatings do not have the same properties as traditional lubes so it is folly to expect them to behave the same and as effectively, the copper jacket ultimately is a coating.

The biggest single thing I have learned about high velocity cast bullet shooting (over 2000 fps) is getting a good alloy that is tough and malleable as opposed to the usual hard and brittle approach. My high velocity alloys are around 18bhn but quiet tough and I achieve that by adding a touch of copper to the base alloy. Others are doing this in a far more scientific way than I and understand the metallurgy of alloying and hopefully this will result in a more repeatable alloying approach. For most of my shooting up to 2000fps I use a 50/50 mix of range scrap and roof flashing/plumbers lead with a touch of copper enriched tin around a 14-16 BHN.

Once you have the alloy then it is getting powders that will not create too much pressure for the strength of the alloy and away you go, after that it is all the usual good cast bullet practice, sufficient good quality lube for the application, I use exclusively White Label 2500 at present and it has never let me down. Good bullet fit and a load that ensures good concentricity with the bore along with consistent neck tension, here more brittle case necks can be better than soft.

This works for me and my shooting, which is mainly older military style rifles with open sights. I expect my loads to hold the nine ring at 600 yards if I do my bit shooting rested from the trench, which is difficult as reading the wind and getting a consistent sight picture in changing light and atmospheric conditions.

There is a lot more to shooting cast bullets at speed than just adding a lube/coating, that is a jacketed bullet mindset.

But hey if it was easy where would be the fun in it?

The only use I have for coating at present is for subsonic loads through a moderator, the coating stops the baffles getting leaded and fouled, it doesn’t help with performance though.

I do agree, the challenge of it all is what keeps my mind twirling and that childhood grin when I hit on target.
I’m going to try still to see what I can make of this whole powder coating and rifle loads, but I will also take what you explained to me as the standard for success. Maybe I’ll find something that works, but I’ll go back to what does.
A while back I made some of the “Felix” lube formula from a sticky another poster left on this site. I used it in my 50 cal pistol loads to try out and it worked perfectly at speeds up to 1650 fps. I never had anything going faster than that when I tested.
As far as my alloy mix for my rifle loads, i do not have the luxury of getting my hands on scrap metals, so I purchase my lead alloy bars from an online distributor. For my rifle applications I was using lyman#2 with some pure lead and some without. My bhn on the lyman was 15 and the other mixes with more pure lead were 12-14. I was air cooling everything, sizing, gas checking or whatever prepping that day or within a day of casting. Then I’d store then for a good month or two to “age”.
After that i weigh the batches and load accordingly.
I’ll look into more your suggestion of adding a touch of copper. Thank you for that tip. I have never heard of that.

I have another question my friend. I’m trying to understand how folks are picking the powders they do in the cast rifle world. Is it that most just stay in the faster burning, lower case fill zones, and if needed a non-temperature sensitive powder ? So most use the middle of the road burn powders to not have an excessively high pressure spike?
The reason I’m asking is after I purchased one of the NOE rifle molds, I had asked Mr. Ranch Dog to make a load card for it. He made a detailed load card and it had many many powders within. So I began looking for powders under the 35,000 psi, that also had the most case fill, and good burning percentages. Even though the choices I made were in the slower burn rates, and I was staying well under maximum pressure, per my lyman casting book, using gas checks, can you explain ( hopefully) why this is not the right way to first select powders.
When you were new, how did you select new powders to yourself, be safe and also know that the powder you were looking into was for the application?
I’ve been a reloader for almost 30 years, but have always used book references or fellow club shooter recipes to work up. These days other than the internet, as no one I know shoots cast rifle personally, is where I’m trying to acquire the new skills my melon needs.
Is it that rifle cast shooting is completely on its own as far as powders, and the normal “go to’s” create an unsafe pressure spike?

Powders are powders cast or jacketed.

However generally when using cast we are looking at slower velocities than jacketed so reduced loads of medium to slow rifle powders to get those lower velocities when going lower than 60% case fill, my own threshold, there is the possibility of Secondary Explosion Effect (SEE) also the slower powders need a certain loading density to function correctly and consistently so we use the faster easily ignited less loading density sensitive powders. If you have loads with the slower powders that give you the velocities you require then use them, I do but usually when going over 2000 fps and entering jacketed territory. To be honest when that happens I usually go for the slower powders like N160 if I can get enough into the case. We are looking to get the bullet fully supported by the rifling as gently as possibly so as to avoid bullet deformation, rifling twist comes into play as well faster twists put more stresses on the bullet and can lead to stripping at the higher velocities giving gas leakage, inaccuracy and leading, the fast twist 6.5 Swedes are notoriously difficult to get to shoot cast well at the higher velocities because of the fast twist and skinny bullets. So it is all about the suitability harmony of the load components for the desired performance in a particular gun. For the velocities less than 2000 fps that you asked about N110 and N120 are my preference as I have found they work for me. It what works and works safely that is the key. My journey was informed by extensive reading on the subject in those pre internet days it was books and the gun comics like handloader, the NRA Cast Bullets book along with the Lyman and RCBS cast bullet books, I came across Harris’s article in the 1994 Handloader so a bit later in the game but I had read Matterns thoughts before. I also listen to experienced long time cast bullet shooters when I found them who still had their faces and fingers. Groups of people who have shot hundreds of thousands of certain loads over the years start to give some statistical validity to their loads.

I had read about the “SEE” problem and possible ringing of the barrel. Now I can really see what the first folks were thinking when the daron filler. The stick powders like to be tighter in the case for a fuller more consistent burn I guess, however the risk of overpacking, too much fill, etc, can lead to excessive pressures. I read somewhere that a gentlemen used corn meal and it plugged the bullet end of the bottleneck case after firing and blew his weapon up. Terrible stuff.
Thank you for the extra help and details. Gave me lots to review and look into further. I made a powder order yesterday and picked a few all within that burn rate area you suggested. so next week its load development time. Have a great day my friend.