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anthonylafleur
I’ve been waiting for the new 411-251 WFNs to age a little, and thought “What a great mid-weight 44 this mould would be.”… The large meplat and ogival-wadcutter style is a natural for close-to-moderate range THUMPING for critters (no matter how many legs they use) that are smaller than dump trucks.
The design leaves a lot of powder space to maximize the velocities that big flat nose can be delivered at… Add the optional RG versions, and this guy covers almost any medium-to-large thump-needing fur-bearer, and bald ones too, that could possibly be imagined.
Is it feasible to orbit the tooling already in-hand to deliver .432-.434 diameters???…Dunno, gotta get Al’s input on that.If so, where are we at weight-wise…265???
I’d love to see a drawing of that, and adding it to NOE’s inventory seems a natural given.
anthonylafleur-
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robertpedersen1
You’re probably in the right ballpark. However…
“Middle-weight” is pretty subjective, since what someone views as light or heavy depends upon what a person does with their .44 caliber cartridge.
.44 revolver guys, for example, often consider 240s to be the middle ground (or even HEAVY, for some shooters).
Yet, .44 Mag carbine shooters seem to like to edge more toward a 265 or 270 being the middle ground.
And, if you keep going, you get into .444 Marlin territory. There, you’ll find guys shooting everything from 160 gr bullets to 490 gr bullets. …And they all have their own view of “middle-weight”. Most guys would say 265 is a good compromise. But other people think 240 gr is plenty heavy, making a 200 or 220 their “middle weight”. While the ‘heavy’ guys think something between 375 gr and 415 gr is a “middle weight” bullet.I shoot all of the above (from 180 gr to 437 gr, in .44 Special to .444 Marlin).
For me, a ‘middle weight’ is probably 265-275 gr.
As for the design…
You have to decide what it will be suitable for, before committing to a nose design. .44 carbine and .444 Marlin lever action shooters often have strict COAL limitations, and .444 Marlin has an exceptionally short throat (with just 0.045″ freebore). So most bullets suitable for .44 Russian, .44 Special, and .44 Mag don’t necessarily play well, if at all, with the rifles.
To play well with .44 caliber rifles, you typically have to have a short nose (0.300″ or less) and 0.360″ or smaller meplat, like the nose of the Ranch Dog 432-265-RF. And the larger the meplat, the shorter the nose has to be to feed reliably. (The RD 432-265-RF is a fantastic bullet with a great track record in a variety of .44 caliber revolvers and rifles – due in no small part to the fact that it was designed specifically to overcome the crappy chamber design of .444 Marlin, which gives it a nose that resists conical shearing upon impact.)The closest .44 caliber bullets to the 411-251 that I know of NOE producing are the 432-290-FN and the 434-290-FN (essentially identical, other than diameter). However, their noses are too long for .444 Marlin in a lever action and some .44 Mag carbines.
If you were to offset the .411″ cherry to cut an oversized cavity for .432″, a quick ‘back-of-a-napkin’ calculation says you’d be in the ballpark of 279 gr.
Given the fact that Al probably doesn’t want to risk a crash, and that the bullet is a bit heavy, it’s probably best to start from scratch.devinfry
I’m specifically interested in having an option like this available for revolvers. We know that there wouldn’t be any issues for single shots, but lever action rifles are not my goal here. If they work in someone’s lever action, great, if not..I’m OK with that.
The short nose and smaller meplate of the 432-265 is a primary reason for suggesting a look at the 411-251 being orbited to .432. I want the extra powder space it would accommodate, AND the larger meplate.
I think that a bullet with those features will be an outstanding performer at short-to-medium ranges in any 44 cal handgun (44 Spcls included) on any target, man or beast, in the lower 48.
Long range, no…Short range “thumper”, oh yea!I have 4″ M29s and a 4 5/8″ SBH that would probably find a new favorite dense-woods carry load if something similar was offered by NOE.
The fact that we don’t have anything quite the same to choose from is reason enough to add it to Al’s inventory.I’d just as soon have a single grease groove, but that would require new tooling (more commits, more time), and I’m hopeful that this idea might get fast-tracked since the tooling is already available… IF orbiting to the larger diameter is possible.
Maybe Al can give an opinion on the feasibilty of the idea.We might be best off just doing a separate design like squigie mentioned. Something like the Beartooth 265-WFN or smaller 434-310 with a single grease groove, single crimp groove and a metplat in the .350″ area. Really you don’t need a 300+ gr bullet, plenty of penetration with a 265gr solid with a monster metplat.
I have no problem with the double grease groove design, in fact I like it.
There is something to be said about an “all-around” bullet, but there’s also a lot to appreciate from a special purpose mould. In my mind the idea I’m proposing meets the second description extremely well. I see it perfectly suited for a 4″-5″ holstered 44, and a darned good option for any barrel length with close-to-moderate ranges intended.If Al thinks orbitting the 411-251 WFN to .432 will work, I’ll be the first to commit to a PB version (unless someone beats me to the sign up list).
The design is a natural for my wants/needs… as good or better than any I’ve seen.erikdorothy
I do like the idea of Special and Magnum crimp grooves on one slug in the 260 grain ballpark.
Meplat in the .30″-.32″ range? I base this off the reputation of the 452423’s reputation of having long-range stability problems with it’s .34″ meplat. Of course, that’s a 240 grain .45, versus a longer, supposedly more inherently stable 260 grain .43. More meplat would be welcome assuming it’ll fly true.
devinfry
robertpedersen1
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