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brigettecuneo
Hello fine folks. I’m having a problem understanding a few things and hoping someone much wiser can explain it better to me. I’ve been reading as much material as I can about casting for my 45acp and it almost has made me more dangerous,lol. I’m confused about a few items I thought I had understood, and apparently I did not.
The new inventory filled a mold I was eye balling for sometime now. The 453-220 hollow point mold. I was so happy it was available for order I nearly clicked the button, then i realized it did not have a crimp groove. I sent Al a message ( by the way, awesome guy for those that do not know) and he said, I would not need one for the 45, and the mold was fine for my applications. To me that was even better news, so I went to look at another mold I was also tossing back between. The large hole 452-230. This model has a crimp groove and also is very close to my rcbs 45-230-rn mold I already have. I was trying to match the molds somewhat for same point of aim.
I wondered if I did get the lighter hollow point mold, would I then need a different crimp die? I’m currently using the lee 4 die set and seat and crimp in a separate step. I was not sure if my lee factory crimp die would properly function this boolit, or would I be fighting myself on something and need a separate crimp die.
This is one spot I’m really confused on. Is a crimp groove more helpful for wheel gun shooters then autos?
id rather spend my budget on molds then more parts to make the boolits function if that makes sense. Tight budget but I want the right equipment also.
Kinda of the same subject, while I was going over all this and trying to figure it out, I ended up pulling some older 40 s and w loads I made for my wife’s pistol. 180 grain lead truncated cone, and this has no crimp groove either, which I thought had to have. I recall reading where folks stated due to the pressure of the 40, a good crimp and a groove was required. So that’s when I started thinking about pulling the last little hair I had out and decided to ask for some help to understand all this.
I have the same lee die set up for the 40 s and w, and was planing on purchasing a mold for it on here that also seems to not have a crimp groove. (401-150 hollow point).
I do not take reloading lightly and always have respected the art. So am I worried for nothing? I just want the correct ones for what we shoot. Trying to bring the cost of target shooting to a more reasonable price range for our budgets while having fun.
I’d love to read some explanations and advice from other 45 acp shooters. What you like in a mold, what you do not like and hopefully that can fill in the gaps.
Thank you for your help.
brigettecuneo-
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Anonymous
The difference in crimping (taper vs rolled) is by design. A revolver head spaces off the rim most of the time. And a semi auto head spaces off the case mouth in most instances. Most reloading die sets come with a roll crimp die if it’s a revolver and most die sets for autos come with a taper crimp. In a revolver if a bullet in the cylinder jumps it’s crimp and extends out the front of the cylinder it may tie up the gun by not letting the cylinder rotate. In an auto pistol the crimp keeps the bullet in place as it makes the jump between the magazine and the chamber. You don’t normally want to roll crimp an auto cartridge for semi auto as you mess up the head spacing. This is a pretty general description and if you want it’s possible to get taper crimp dies for revolvers and roll crimp dies for autos. You may read that semi autos head space off the extractor and in some instances this may actually be the case but it wasn’t designed to head space that way. Bullets for auto pistols don’t normally have crimp grooves because they don’t usually get roll crimped.
The difference in crimping (taper vs rolled) is by design. A revolver head spaces off the rim most of the time. And a semi auto head spaces off the case mouth in most instances. Most reloading die sets come with a roll crimp die if it’s a revolver and most die sets for autos come with a taper crimp. In a revolver if a bullet in the cylinder jumps it’s crimp and extends out the front of the cylinder it may tie up the gun by not letting the cylinder rotate. In an auto pistol the crimp keeps the bullet in place as it makes the jump between the magazine and the chamber. You don’t normally want to roll crimp an auto cartridge for semi auto as you mess up the head spacing. This is a pretty general description and if you want it’s possible to get taper crimp dies for revolvers and roll crimp dies for autos. You may read that semi autos head space off the extractor and in some instances this may actually be the case but it wasn’t designed to head space that way. Bullets for auto pistols don’t normally have crimp grooves because they don’t usually get roll crimped.
Thank you sir for responding. for these 2 calibers, we will only be shooting with autos. So from what your saying, I’m good to go with my first choice of the lighter 200 grain hollow point and no groove specifically because I’m using an auto. That’s also the ideal scenario for us. I’m just puzzled as to why I was told the other by someone I thought knew what he was talking about.
I’ve been reloading for so many years, following this set up for these 2 calibers the guy gave me and help set up my dies.
I think that’s why I was conflicted because I trusted what was told to me, but I was reading so many other reports, it confused this old fart. Thank you for some clarification.From your original post it sounds like your already casting and reloading the 45 acp. Without knowing your reloading setup this is going to be really basic. If your having good luck with your current reloads and RCBS bullets the only die you may need to adjust is the bullet seating die when you change to the NOE cast bullets. This presumes the same alloy and bullet sizing die are used. You shouldn’t have to adjust the case flare or amount of crimp if they have worked in the past. Cast some bullets, weigh them, find an appropriate powder charge and then try and figure out the cartridge length over all you need for this bullet. When you have these figured out make a few dummy rounds (no primer or powder) and cycle the dummy round thru your pistol. Treat your dummy rounds the same as if you were at the range loading your pistol. You want the dummy rounds to make a realistic jump from the magazine to the chamber. Then extract the dummy round and measure it’s length over all. The length of the dummy round shouldn’t have gotten shorter. If the bullet has set back into the case (shorter length overall) more crimp may be the solution and worst case scenario a harder alloy may solve this. You don’t want the bullet setting back in the case during feeding as this can cause pressure problems. This pressure concern tends to be less of a problem in the 45acp than the 9mm or 40 S&W. It is best to avoid though. Good luck in your reloading.
AlvinYork
Just a FWIW, my technique of loading auto rounds has worked quite well – clean up the case as desired, size the case with your brand of sizer then use one of Al’s NOE Expander plugs (basically an M-die) so your case mouth has a 0.002 flare to it. This allows the bullet to sit still while you’re seating it. Prime, charge and seat the bullet with the seater plug of your choice dialed down so whatever crimp the die has does NOT engage. That’s it. The case mouth should be visible when you look at it “pointing” at you. It should appear completely circular. This means your cartridge has a positive and defined ridge where it will stop the case when loading. The extractor will probably snap onto the rim and pull it back from rim stop but, as david posted, the design is for the cartridge to headspace on the case mouth.
Happy shooting!Thank you both for the extra help. I think I have it understood now. Took me a while to finally grasp it but it makes sense now. I ended up ordering the 453-220 mold, as that was my first choice. I like the ballistics of the round better. So I’m very grateful for the explanations and tips. It helps a lot.
As far as casting goes, I’m still gathering everything together. I have the rcbs 230 grain mold, but have not used it yet. I think my first casting session is going to be this coming weekend. I have been reloading since 1997, mostly pistols for IDPA competitions. I also always wanted to cast my own, but never took the leap. It’s alittle intimidating.
It’s been challenging relearning something I thought I understood. A beginner student all over again, fun but also tough when I can not find the answer.
I hope you all have a wonderful day gentlemen.
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