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brigettecuneo
I’m new to casting and trying to put together some recipes of which alloy hardness is best for the 500 magnum. My first thought is a brinell hardness of 18 based on what I’ve researched so far. Lots of conflicting information on the net, so I’m trying to narrow it down some more and hoping you fine folks can offer some insight. I’m not looking to go beyond 1500 ish fps. Not extreme, but something around 1300-1500 fps in the 375-450 grain area.
For those that love to shoot this handgun, what bullet types are you using and what hardness are you using for each one? I understand different velocities may have different hardness choices and I like to hear your thoughts about it.
My plan is to have different alloy types for each of the 3 calibers I’m going to cast for. 40 s and w, 45 acp and the 500.
The 40 is my girl’s and was going to go with Lyman #2 per my Lyman manual. Same for the 45 acp, but I’ve also read where many folks like a brinell of 12 for their 45 acp, so I may try that also.
I’m not looking for high velocities, just fun target loads for both handguns.
The 500 I would like the versatility I believe the caliber offers, so I was curious if some casters use different alloy types of the same boolit, but with different velocities. I was thinking specifically of the reduced trail boss loads and a softer lighter boolit. Thank you for time and your help.
brigettecuneo-
Replies
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henrikmelby
Proper bullet fit and good lube is far more important than BHN hardness!
Most of my rifles sling 97/3 (BHN below
past 1600fps with no ill issues.
My Marlin 94 44MAG with micro groove barrel (which all the “experts” say cant shoot lead) i push past 1750fps with bullets cast from 97/3 and a gascheck (over 4.5k shots since last cleaning).
With an alloy of 94/3/3 (BHN @12) and a gascheck i go past 2250fps.
94/3/3 = 94% lead + 3% tin + 3% antimony.Ponder this:
Elmer Keith did all his 44MAG work with an alloy of 10:1 lead to tin (BHN @12) and considered that a hard alloy.Proper bullet fit and good lube is far more important than BHN hardness!
Most of my rifles sling 97/3 (BHN below
past 1600fps with no ill issues.
My Marlin 94 44MAG with micro groove barrel (which all the “experts” say cant shoot lead) i push past 1750fps with bullets cast from 97/3 and a gascheck (over 4.5k shots since last cleaning).
With an alloy of 94/3/3 (BHN @12) and a gascheck i go past 2250fps.
94/3/3 = 94% lead + 3% tin + 3% antimony.Ponder this:
Elmer Keith did all his 44MAG work with an alloy of 10:1 lead to tin (BHN @12) and considered that a hard alloy.I am new but also understanding the “triangle” of importance in all 3. I believe I have the lube part and correct bullet size, just trying to get as much information as possible regarding the third portion to the equation. Thank you for experiences and your help sir.
robertpedersen1
I run on the soft side, for nearly everything.
Even some rifle cartridges get stuffed with BHN 9-11 (GC) bullets for velocities up to 2,300 fps.However…
One thing to keep in mind with revolvers, is that softer alloys can partially obturate when they hit the forcing cone. Using bullets too “soft” for the job (even some jacketed bullets) can lead to a cracked forcing cone – or worse.
It isn’t as critical at lower pressures, like those of .44 Mag and .357 Mag, or less. But with cartridges like .460 S&W, .500 S&W, .475 Linebaugh, and .327 Federal, where you’re generally running 45k psi, or higher, with ‘standard’ loads, it is something that should be kept in mind.Since .454 Casull hit the stage, quite a few ballisticians have warned against using ‘soft’ bullets in high pressure revolver loads. It’s a warning that most people have never seen, nor heard about, but an important one. Somewhere, within the last 4-5 years, I saw an article about Vernon Speer describing a catastrophic forcing cone failure from using soft bullets in an experimental high pressure revolver cartridge.
Speer, Sierra, and Hornady have all specifically identified .460 S&W, .500 S&W, and .327 Federal as cartridges that should never be loaded with bullets that were not specifically designed for the cartridge. All of them do have a horse in the race, so to speak, and want to sell their own products. But, at the same time, they all also have products that they have to specifically warn against owners using (like the 60gr and 85 gr XTPs in .327 Federal, 185 gr and 230 gr XTPs in .460 S&W, Speer DeepCurls and SWCs in .460 S&W, and more…).
So….
Don’t go “too soft” if you’re pushing decent pressures.Even though I run some rifle cartridges at 48k psi and up to 2,300 fps with bullets as soft as BHN 9, all of my .327 Federal revolvers and my .480 Ruger see an approximate minimum of BHN 12 (“COWW” +2% tin) for “moderate” loads, and about BHN 18-19 for full power loads. Burning up a little more antimony from my stash is a lot cheaper and safer than a forcing cone failure and barrel (or full revolver) replacement — or, god forbid, personal injury.
So, if I were in your shoes…
I’d be looking at probably something around BHN 18 for the majority of what you’ve described. And I might drop to as soft as BHN 9 for the “light” loads. Just don’t mix them up.(…)
Ponder this:
Elmer Keith did all his 44MAG work with an alloy of 10:1 lead to tin (BHN @12) and considered that a hard alloy.Elmer Keith also blew up a lot of revolvers.
Not all of his choices were the best course of action.
(For example: His first Kaboom!)
I run on the soft side, for nearly everything.
Even some rifle cartridges get stuffed with BHN 9-11 (GC) bullets for velocities up to 2,300 fps.However…
One thing to keep in mind with revolvers, is that softer alloys can partially obturate when they hit the forcing cone. Using bullets too “soft” for the job (even some jacketed bullets) can lead to a cracked forcing cone – or worse.
It isn’t as critical at lower pressures, like those of .44 Mag and .357 Mag, or less. But with cartridges like .460 S&W, .500 S&W, .475 Linebaugh, and .327 Federal, where you’re generally running 45k psi, or higher, with ‘standard’ loads, it is something that should be kept in mind.Since .454 Casull hit the stage, quite a few ballisticians have warned against using ‘soft’ bullets in high pressure revolver loads. It’s a warning that most people have never seen, nor heard about, but an important one. Somewhere, within the last 4-5 years, I saw an article about Vernon Speer describing a catastrophic forcing cone failure from using soft bullets in an experimental high pressure revolver cartridge.
Speer, Sierra, and Hornady have all specifically identified .460 S&W, .500 S&W, and .327 Federal as cartridges that should never be loaded with bullets that were not specifically designed for the cartridge. All of them do have a horse in the race, so to speak, and want to sell their own products. But, at the same time, they all also have products that they have to specifically warn against owners using (like the 60gr and 85 gr XTPs in .327 Federal, 185 gr and 230 gr XTPs in .460 S&W, Speer DeepCurls and SWCs in .460 S&W, and more…).
So….
Don’t go “too soft” if you’re pushing decent pressures.Even though I run some rifle cartridges at 48k psi and up to 2,300 fps with bullets as soft as BHN 9, all of my .327 Federal revolvers and my .480 Ruger see an approximate minimum of BHN 12 (“COWW” +2% tin) for “moderate” loads, and about BHN 18-19 for full power loads. Burning up a little more antimony from my stash is a lot cheaper and safer than a forcing cone failure and barrel (or full revolver) replacement — or, god forbid, personal injury.
So, if I were in your shoes…
I’d be looking at probably something around BHN 18 for the majority of what you’ve described. And I might drop to as soft as BHN 9 for the “light” loads. Just don’t mix them up.(…)
Ponder this:
Elmer Keith did all his 44MAG work with an alloy of 10:1 lead to tin (BHN @12) and considered that a hard alloy.Elmer Keith also blew up a lot of revolvers.
Not all of his choices were the best course of action.(For example: His first Kaboom!)
That was great personal information. Thank you for taking the time with that. Makes me feel alittle better about the direction I’m going I think so far. I do want to try some different alloy mixes for that perfect fit in the barrel during ignition.
I have a place on my property to shoot so making a few of each type will not take as long to find the right combination that’s safe. I think I’m more being cautious, but I definitely respect the 500.
For me it’s a whole new world in casting. I’ve been reloading over 20 years, just never took the extra leap in doing what I always wanted to do. It’s alittle intimidating for the beginner. so thank you again for the guidance.
Full.Lead.Taco
A big +1 to everything Squigie said.
I like my 45 ACP to be soft. I find that powder coated bullets made of softer lead alloys shoot great in my 45’s. They cost less to make and they shoot well, so it works for me. 45 ACP is a low pressure/low velocity cartridge, no need to waste expensive tin/antimony in it.
For 500 mag, if you are doing lighter loads like with Trailboss and Unique, its ok to use a softer alloy–at least it has been ok for me. I do, however, use harder alloys when bumping up the pressures.
.40 cal bullets–I generally cast them a little on the soft side except when I am loading them in my 10mm. For my 10mm loads, I like the hard bullets.
I powder coat almost all my bullets these days.
A big +1 to everything Squigie said.
I like my 45 ACP to be soft. I find that powder coated bullets made of softer lead alloys shoot great in my 45’s. They cost less to make and they shoot well, so it works for me. 45 ACP is a low pressure/low velocity cartridge, no need to waste expensive tin/antimony in it.
For 500 mag, if you are doing lighter loads like with Trailboss and Unique, its ok to use a softer alloy–at least it has been ok for me. I do, however, use harder alloys when bumping up the pressures.
.40 cal bullets–I generally cast them a little on the soft side except when I am loading them in my 10mm. For my 10mm loads, I like the hard bullets.
I powder coat almost all my bullets these days.
I’ve been reloading using beer creek supply lead/moly boolits in my 45’s ever since I first purchased one. I got hooked back in the IDPA days. Same thing with the 40, for my girl. Trying to duplicate what I’ve been buying all these years but making it myself.
The 500 is a separate issue and with the hunting loads I would like, most likely will need the harder 18, or a water quenched Lyman #2 mix I’m guessing so far.
And yes sir, thank you for the tips on the powder coating. That very might be something I can talk the woman into. Great suggestions.I’ve been reloading using beer creek supply lead/moly boolits in my 45’s ever since I first purchased one. I got hooked back in the IDPA days. Same thing with the 40, for my girl. Trying to duplicate what I’ve been buying all these years but making it myself.
The 500 is a separate issue and with the hunting loads I would like, most likely will need the harder 18, or a water quenched Lyman #2 mix I’m guessing so far.
And yes sir, thank you for the tips on the powder coating. That very might be something I can talk the woman into. Great suggestions.Expect no expansion at that BHN hardness.
Maybe a good jacketed that will expand instead of a cast hole punch?k7sparky
Got my 454 B4 there were “grades” in Freedom Arms and a 6 to 8 month wait list.
It was stressed NO Soft alloy because of close to 60K pressure same as high power rifle. Hard cast work read hardness vrs pressure info on LASC
45 ACP. Mine all lead if cast much over 8 BHN some even at that hardness. One of the main reasons I cast is to get softer boolits for old slab sides. LASC covers too hard boolits
Lube has gone to Fryxell’s Alox formula using moly grease from W/M.
See LASC web site and take Swedes’ advice and download and READ “From Ingot to Target” http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm as well as most of the other GOOD stuff there for casters.
EDIT – Don’t even think of using a HB. Not what they are for! – End Edit
A continuation on 454
FA & Hornady both warned about using too soft core jacked also because of deformation across cylinder gap and remember FA gap 2 mils or less.
Haven’t done my homework on the 500 S&W yet still lusting after one but would guess the same things
Having abused the FA with too generous amounts of AA#9 before there was any loading info for that application out. Yea snail mail days and 454 brass made for Large rifle primers NAA was only source and we could buy pocket reducer rings to use small rifle primers.
One of the all time stupids – watched the silhouette crew on their backs bracing against a leg for long range shots. Tried that WITHOUT chaps. Ahhhh! pain is SOOOOOO! great a teacher.
Been abused in turn by the FA I think I may woos out and opt for Magna-Port with the S&W
Got my 454 B4 there were “grades” in Freedom Arms and a 6 to 8 month wait list.
It was stressed NO Soft alloy because of close to 60K pressure same as high power rifle. Hard cast work read hardness vrs pressure info on LASC
45 ACP. Mine all lead if cast much over 8 BHN some even at that hardness. One of the main reasons I cast is to get softer boolits for old slab sides. LASC covers too hard boolits
Lube has gone to Fryxell’s Alox formula using moly grease from W/M.
See LASC web site and take Swedes’ advice and download and READ “From Ingot to Target” http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm as well as most of the other GOOD stuff there for casters.
EDIT – Don’t even think of using a HB. Not what they are for! – End Edit
I appreciate your advice my good man. One of the first things I did many months back was read that online book from cover to cover. I was a super newbie with metal alloys and that really helped me a lot. After reading that book, is where my idea came from regarding the semi wadcutter hollow point. Elmer referred to the semi wadcutter and some hollow point designs with great success so it got me thinking about the hand cannon.
we got our 500 magnum a few years ago on a good deal. I was stuck on the 6.5 inch half lug. It’s a great wheel gun. Lots of boom for sure, and always a huge smile after I crack a few off. The overflow of pumpkins and watermelons this year are in big trouble.Full.Lead.Taco
The 500 S&W is a great cartridge and fun revolver. My shooting buddy enjoyed shooting mine so much that he had to buy one too. My other buddy said it is on his short list also. With two of them, you can set up an odd number of water filled milk jugs and do 500 mag duels. You just set them out in a line in front of two of you and each of you starts out shooting on the outside (on opposite ends) and you both race to see who can get to the middle jug first. Loads of fun. Works with pumpkins too. Here is a video of my friend and I dueling (with NOE bullet mold bullets, of course).
https://youtu.be/Uwv8eFewJgAGREAT way to water the lawn
From the rise I am guessing both are ported?
Full.Lead.Taco
Mine has the factory brake/porting, I believe my buddy’s has just a couple ports on the top. In that particular video, I believe we are using powder coated plain based bullets with a mid range load. I have about 7 of Al’s 50 cal molds I use with my 500 mag. Lots of variety.
BTW Thanks for sharing the video
Does any of your group have an unported one?
Curious about the amount of crimp needed to stop bullet pull ported vrs unported
My 454 is not ported. It takes a HEAVY crimp on a tight neck to shoot 5 and not walk the bullets out
henrikmelby
robertpedersen1
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