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Larry Gibson
1st test of the NOE 311-165-FP
First test of the NOE 310-165 commenced this morning in my .308W Palma rifle. It is a byf M98 Mauser action with a 27.5” Schultz & Larson Palma contour barrel with a 14” twist. The stock is a Kevlar, fiberglass rendition of the old Savage single shot M112 Stock. The scope is an older original Weaver T-16.
Alloy; Lyman #2 made of 4 ½ lbs linotype, 5 lbs of lead and ½ lb of tin.
Bullets were WQ’d out of the mould and at 48 hours the BHN was 24.
Bullets were visually inspected, any defect was cause for rejection.
Selected bullets were then weight sorted to +/- .25 gr.
Bullet drive bands measured right at .311.
When GC’d and pushed through a .308 sizer the bearing surface was at 53% of the bullet length.
Hornady GCs Seated with GC device on Lyman 450 with .311 H&I installed.
GC’d bullets then “sized” and lubed in the .311 H&I with 2500+ lube.
The selected 311-165s weighed 164.7 gr fully dressed.
Cases were Winchester Palma .308W which were well fire formed and match prepped. They were NS’d in a Redding Bushing die to give .002 neck tension on the .311 sized cast 311-165s.
Primers were WLRs.
Bullets were seated to just kiss the lead with an OAL of 2.658”.
Powder was AA4350 with 10 shot test strings of 45 gr, 46 gr, 47 gr, 48 gr and 49 gr. The 48 gr load was at 100% load density with the 49 gr load slightly compressed.
The M43 Oehler PBL was set up at the range with muzzle screens at 15’ and the down range screens in front of the 100 yard target.
Shooting through two sets of screens simultaneously takes a bit of getting used to and I had a few “called” shots in the first couple test strings. I had to get over the tendency to look at the screens instead the aiming point. I shot the 1st 5 shots with the starting load on a different target to make sure of the zero. Still, until you get used to it threading the bullet through all those screens, especially the down range screen opening which looks awfully small from 100 yards. Those 1st 5 shots went into 1.1” which was looking good.
The start load of 45 gr AA4350 started out very well though I pulled 2 shots “down and away”. Total group size was 2.45” with the 8 good shots in 1.6”. The unforeseen problem was the psi 40,300 which is close to the top end for cast bullets of this alloy for best accuracy. Obviously the full length bearing surface and minimal lube groove width had increased the psi. The muzzle velocity was 2480 and the measured BC was .246.
The 46 gr test load gave 42,500 psi, 2531 fps and a BC of .233. The group size was 2.25” with one for sure called down and away and another very good probable.
The 47 gr load, which I was anticipating to be the “accurate load”, did not disappoint me. I put 8 of the 10 shots into 1.2”. Two shots went high and were not “calls”….all 10 shots were good shots. Looking at the data I see those 2 shots (#7 & #9) were high end velocity wise (#7 was the high velocity) and both shots had the low end BCs….pretty low actually. That indicates something was wrong with, or happened to those 2 bullets. Give equal velocity the lower the BC the less stable in flight. The muzzle velocity for this load was the desired 2605 fps but at 45,500 psi! The BC was .231 and would have been higher except for those 2 low ones of #7 & #9 shots.
The 48 gr load was interesting in that as velocity increased the BC increased to .246 instead of decreasing. The muzzle velocity was 2638 fps with a psi of 47,900. The group opened a bit to 2.8” which was not nearly as bad as I expected given the psi. The 48 gr load was at 100% load density with AA4350 in the fire formed Winchester cases.
The 49 gr load, which was slightly compressed, was also somewhat surprising in that the group did not open further considering the 2686 fps muzzle velocity and the 50,700 psi! The group was a decent 2.5”. The BC again showed an increase to .249.To say I was surprised and very pleased with this bullets performance would be an understatement! I do believe this NOE 311-165-FN is a definite winner. What I have to do now is to get the psi down to around 40 – 41,000 max with a velocity of around 2600 fps in this .308W Palma rifle. I also tested some 173 gr modern SIL cast bullets Tim sent me loaded over RL22. Pressures were less at close to 100% load density. With this NOE bullet over RL22 the psi should be down around a manageable 40-42,000 psi at close to the projected 2600 fps.
That is where my next test will take me. I also will reshoot the 47 gr load of AA4350 just to confirm whether it is a good load or not. With the 30×57’s (30 XCB) larger case capacity it should be able to keep the psi’s down even better.
By the way; I did not clean the barrel between test strings. After the 56 round at these high psi’s and velocities I ran a wet patch down the barrel and found no trace of leading or fouling. The lube groove sizes are sufficient and the 2500+ is doing an excellent job.
Larry Gibson
Larry Gibson
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NOE 310-165-FN with RL 22, H44831SC and retest of AA4350
Forgot to mention on the last test report what the 1st five shots with the NOE 310-165-FN bullet did. When I have the down range screens up for a test in front of the 100 yard target I have learned the hard way to always double check the zero on another target before shooting through the screens. Thus the 1st five shots with the NOE 31-165-FN bullet were shot on a zero check target. The load was the “start” load of 45 gr AA4350. As you se the 1st 5 shots went into 1.1” which was shortly found out to be 2480 fps. Not a bad start……not bad at all!
Anyway this morning I slipped out to the range at oh dark thirty and set up for testing RL 22, H4831SC and a retest of the 47 gr AA4350 load that looked good in the 1st test under the NOE 310-165 bullet. These were the same lot of selected bullets as the 1st test.
I shot the retest of the 47 gr AA4350 load on a zero target w/o velocity and psi testing as that had already been done in the 1st test a couple days ago. I also decided to include a “cold clean bore” test with it. Looking at the target you can see the 1st, 2nd and 3rd shots and then on the 4th shot the group settled down. Shots 4 through 10 (7 shots) went into .62”! What else is there to say………
With RL 22 I tested 47, 48 and 49 gr. While None of the loads really gave me anything to write home to momma about the groups range from 1.9” to 2.7” for each 10 shot string. Internal ballistics were good but the RL 22 just didn’t shoot well. Also the 49 gr load at 100% load density just broke 2500 fps. Nothing great in the .308W but with the increased case capacity of the 30×57 (30 XCB) it deserves a test there, especially since the psi was held down to 38,400 psi with the 49 gr load.
Next I ran 10 shot test loads of 46, 47, 48 and 49 gr H4831`SC with 49 gr also being 100% load density. The 46 gr load went into 2.25” at 2351 fps with 33,300 psi. Great the psi was down but so was the velocity and the groups size just made me yawn.
With the 47 gr load things began to look better. I called 2 shots out; one down and away and one high and inside. The other 8 shots went into 1.5” at 2411 fps with 34,900 psi……things were looking up!
Then I shot the 48 gr load of H4831SC under the NOE bullet……holy smokes! It is very hard not to blow a group shooting through all those screens but when you can see the group in the scope (16X T-16) it is hard to hold steady!.. Group for the 10 shots was .78”! Velocity was still a bit low at 2467 but the psi was still down at 36,800 psi. The internal ballistics were extremely good. Just look at how smooth and evenly matched all those pressure traces are!
So was that small group an anomaly? The test of 49 gr H4831SC showed it probably wasn’t. The 49 gr load went into a 1.08” group….MOA! Can’t complain about the accuracy but the velocity was only 2490 fps at 37,400 psi. Again the internal ballistics were excellent. While maybe not the best load in the .308W it is looking pretty good for the 30×57 (30 XCB) with its larger case capacity.
Next test will be to load up 50 of the 47 gr AA4350 load and test at 100, 200 and 300 yards.
Larry Gibson
keithsharp
Sorry for the late reply, been somewhat out of the net with family visiting. When the wife catches me on the computer I got the “dear” in the headlight look!
I use Lar’s 2500+ (White Label).
The barrel is a factory Schultz and Larson Palma barrel with a 14″ twist. It has a .300″ bore (pin measured) and a .3085″ groove diameter with 4 lands and grooves of typical military/commercial style. The lands appear to be 30 – 35% of the bore diameter.
The Broughton barrel I have ordered to be chambered in 30×57 (30 XCB) will be 30″ in length, Palma contour, 16″ twist with 3 lands and grooves with a .300″ bore and .308″ groove diameter. It will be put on a VX24 M98 action.
Larry Gibson
johnblackwell
johntibbs
SwedeNelson
bjornborud
I’ll also be posting some shooting results here with my 30XCB rifle. Most of you have seen some of the previous results over on CB, and with a new barrel now installed by Tim Malcolm the rifle is now ready to take on new challenges. All results so far have been with Al’s 310-165 bullet, and this will continue with further shooting.
Larry has been a steady source of support throughout the testing phase, and I’m looking forward to continued teamwork.
Bjorn
adamsutherland
keithsharp
johnblackwell
daveridenour
johntibbs
SwedeNelson
bjornborud
sgt.mike
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