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Ranch Dog
Okay guys, I’m finished with the design work on my three 30 caliber short necked cartridges; the 300 Savage, 308 Win, and 7.62×39.
These cartridge represents a bit of a challenge in cast bullet design, that being the need to contain the body within the case neck and then balancing the center of pressure with the center of gravity while retaining a usable bullet length. My focus has been on using these bullets in modern bolt action rifles. The reason I’ve focused on these actions is because of the demand they place on the bullet fitting all the detailed features of the chamber cut. The details of the chamber cut in these rifles are very consistent and are capable of being verified during manufacture with go/no-go gauges. Fitting the bullet to the chamber features is important if the for the bullet is to survive at the cartridge designed pressure and velocities. If we are not going to push all of these we might as well just shoot a 30-30 Win. Of course, your bullet alloy and it’s treatment is just as important if not more so. I can get the design right, but you have to control the product at the drop.
The first and last have updated features and the 308 Win is a new design. Here they are in line with each for a comparison; the TLC310-165-RF for the 300 Savage, the TLC310-180-RF for the 308 Win, and the TLC313-150-RF for the 7.62×39
My original TLC310-150-RF for the 300 Savage was a 150-grain bullet and I tried to get around the intracacies of the chamber cut of this cartridge with a simple tangent ogive. Like all three of these offerings the chamber is just too complex for a simple design to provide a good fit.
The new design considers the needs of the step, freebore, freebore leade, and leade cut into the SAAMI chamber while at the same time confining the bullet body within the case neck.
I also wanted to see a longer bullet nose to improve feed from the magazine, no matter the design of that magazine. A chamber impression from my Savage 110 was used to verify that this manufacture does cut to the SAAMI specification.
One thing that I started to do as a standard when designing a bullet is defining the case length with any design in that the case neck is so important. To accomplish this I use the Lee Case Length Gauge/Trimmer minus .005″ to establish this length. These trimmers are easy to check using your calipers by measuring from the base that meets the cutter to the pin. These trimmers should measure at the SAAMI trim length when checked. When a case is trimmed, deburred, and chamfered it should be at the maximum SAAMI trim length minus .005″. Any shorter and the timer should be discarded and a new trimmer purchased. Keep this standard in mind if you use a adjustable trimmer.
Another item that I have incorporated into my design work since establishing a case length, is to design a bullet that provides a set cartridge overall length. These lengths are defined to the .005″.
This is an orignal design based on what the 300 Sav and 7.62X39 have taught me about critical dimension chambers but I have little doubt that it will not but prove to be great critter getter!
The exact same features that were present in the 300 Savage are present in the 308 Win. Like the TLC310-165-RF, top band is used to fit the step, and freebore, and freebore leade, and then a tapered bore rider is used to address the leade.
A chamber impression of my Mossberg 800A verified the SAAMI dimensions used to in the cartridge design.
The base of the bullet matches the base of the case neck using the same brass standard that was mentioned as well as establishing a cartridge overall length.
This final design is what brought me to the short necks and has taught me the most about bullet design. There is no doubt that the 7.62×39 has become my favorite cartridge. As a fellow that tromps the brush of my South Texas ranch, I know that this cartridge is capable of meeting the needs of a life time of feral hog and whitetail hunting. I have more rifles in this cartridge now than I do in any other cartridge that I shoot and as a lever nut, that is saying a lot.
Like the 300 Savage, this isn’t my first rodeo and the same lessons learned about a simple tangent ogive apply. These ogives may work for leverguns but they don’t allow a modern bolt gun be all it is capable of being.
Top band and a very short tapered bore rider (.015″) is used to match the critical components of the chamber.
The chamber has been verified against my Savage 10 FCM, Ruger Mini-30, and Zastava M85 (my favorite light rifle). I have sidelined the 10 FCM until I have a chance to fire lap the barrel. In this Savage the freebore leade tapers to a .308″ groove and .300″ bore. I’m going to try to lap it out to .310″/.302″ or get rid of it.
The magazine feed from my bolt guns is slick as a whistle and once I dressed the forward edge of my Mini-30 magazine, the same can be said.
The 7.62×39 is a great compact cartridge especially when used in a bolt gun like the Zastava M85 Mini-Mauser. If you have ever wanted a Savage 340 or Remington 788 chambered in 30-30 Win for cast bullet hunting, you would love this combination!
This has been the longest cast bullet project I’ve attempted, several hundred hours of sweating the small details, but I believe it will pay off in the performance you see out the barrel. I have much more information available to include loading data but it has been a long day.
Swede has my shop drawings and will be doing his work to give you the options you like to see in any of my designs. We should have the group buys up tomorrow. Let’s get this going, I have a bunch of rifles that need bullets!
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Replies
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daveridenour
I want a SC 310-180. It should be a given that both versions are available…
I’m not sure why it should be a given when the interest has not been expressed.
Michael,
In all due respect, I don’t think that’s correct. At least three people have requested a standard lube groove version in this thread alone (gfenleyiii in Post #18, yodgsandman in Post #20, and oldblinddog in Post #31). I believe the same pattern holds true in other discussion threads, like for the RD 9mm mould design. Also, there was a thread in the “Wish List” section of this forum where six people expressed interest in a standard lube groove version of the RD 308 mould. See: http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php?topic=747.0
If you look at the regular Group Buy Discussions section of this forum since it started, there are 10 pages of topics, 185 topics, and 1940 posts, the vast majority of which are not for tumble lube designs. If you look at the RD Group Buy section of this forum for tumble lube designs over that same period of time, there are only 2 pages of topics, 27 topics, and 317 posts. To me, it looks like there’s about six times the interest in standard lube groove designs compared to tumble lube designs. It seems to me that the vast majority of people willing to buy a high quality custom mould would rather have a standard lube groove design.
You have some very interesting bullet designs, but you’re missing the biggest part of the market by ignoring the standard lube groove designs. IMO.
Dave
steveleonard
I would certainly want a regular lube groove Ranch Dog 30 caliber 180 grain bullet mold for the .308 Win. I want the ability to tailor my loads using the best mold designs (RD) with my choice of lubes. All TL designs depend on alox as a lube ingredient that’s known for lube purging when you least expect it. The vast majority will surely like a lube groove design that they can choose which lubes to use. Watching the new CB threads on XCB high velocity boolits, I’m wondering if maybe shortened depth lube grooves would be better still, for strength, much like the TL design adds strength to the bullets body.
I’d also like to see a .314″/.315″ option for 7.62×51 or 303 British.
stephenquick
I have expressed an interest on more than this one occasion. My lube and size setup is for the “normal” Lyman/RCBS type lube/sizer. I don’t care to change nor am I at all impressed with the tumble lube concept. I’m sure other people feel the same way and I agree that you are probably missing a sizeable segment of your target market.
Just my two pesos….
The intent and my interest in doing any work with these three cartridges was with tumble lube designs, that is what I shoot and what my interest is. Swede saw fit to cut the designs based on the work I had done with them and it would be up to him to carry them forward in standard lube versions.I’m just a customer like you guys, I simply showed Swede that there was an interest and he saw it through. It would be best to start a new topic requesting the cut which I think you have done.
steventhomopoulos
I’ve never had the opportunity to take a feral hog with my TLC310-180-RF and finally shot one this past Friday morning.
It was an 80 yard shot, through the heart. The hog ran 30 yards, about 15 yards forward and 15 yards back to near where it was standing. The blood trail both ways was about 3 yards wide.
I’m really not shooting it like a 308 Win, rather more like a 30-30 Win/7.62×39. I had a bad batch of bullets, as far as alloy is concerned, that where too soft for use at 13 BHN but I decided to shoot them up in that I had already put the gas checks on them. I initially tried oven heating them to get them harder but the first batches melted before the the process was complete. Probably a little too much tin in the mix plus I didn’t get enough antimony as there is no response to the heat treating.
Anyway, they shot great up to about 25.0K PSI, I’m using 35.3-grains of Varget for 2035 FPS. With only about 40 remaining, I will get the rifles ghost ring sights shot in and then get back on track for using this rifle this deer season as a real 308 Win.
Mike Bambauer
charlesnuss
georgehajduk
Hey RD! Have you done any more testing on the Savage 10 FCM Scout 7.62×39 using the TLC310-165-RF? I picked up a Ruger M77 MKII in 7.62×39 and did the chamber cast, slugged the barrel and I was surprised it’s cut the same way as your Savage. If I load up a dummy round using the TLC310-165-RF length at 2.175 it chambers no problem.
Maineguide
Hey RD! Have you done any more testing on the Savage 10 FCM Scout 7.62×39 using the TLC310-165-RF? I picked up a Ruger M77 MKII in 7.62×39 and did the chamber cast, slugged the barrel and I was surprised it’s cut the same way as your Savage. If I load up a dummy round using the TLC310-165-RF length at 2.175 it chambers no problem.
Maineguide
Good morning. Still shooting it with the TLC310-165-RF and 31.1-grains of W748 for 2190 FPS. Here are all the particulars of the load.
Just about out of ammo for it and I’m just about out of the W748 so I will switch to one of the Hodgdon powders I have in stock. Honestly, I have less than a pound of H-LVR that I’ve not found very useful so I think I will load a case up to a 100% capacity and see how it shoots. The Savage action gives me a lot of leeway, so from the 100%, if the powder offers reasonable performance, I will walk the load up in 1% increments to 105% case capacity to see all it might offer.Checked and didn’t realize that I had already posted the load data for this combo in May of last year.
amranch
Micheal I have been using your designs for years.. Santa was very kind to me at Christmas this year. He pointed out a 300 Savage 99 in a shop to me that he said I should absolutely have since I was such a good boy last year. The question I have is that I was reading about your development work for the 300 and you stated that you had designed it for bolt actions. Would this work ok in the 99. I already have the new design mold for the 308 and love it. Thanks
stephenquick
daveridenour
steveleonard
steventhomopoulos
Mike Bambauer
charlesnuss
georgehajduk
amranch
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