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AlvinYork
Meant to get to this sooner . . .
In another thread concerning 9mm bullets I mentioned the bullet under discussion might be good with the 350 Legend. Cornmastah then brought up that the legend has some special needs based on a rib in the magazines. tmaloy made a recommendation for a starting – the RCBS 147g 0.359 – where the first change would be the inclusion of a gas check.
I’m hoping cornmastah might draw up that prototype, if it looks good, using that fancy software he has. Actually, I have the same software I just haven’t had a chance to put the time in to really make a decent drawing.
So, let’s discuss and try to come up with the best bullet out there for the 350 Legend!
AlvinYork-
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tommeboy
I’d like to see a commercial 180g bullet added to the mix here. I’m not saying Mike B. (does he have a moniker, BTW?) has to redraft all the drawings he provided, which are professionally done, IMHO. Maybe just a list of diameters starting with the first then do a “print on change” which is defined as – list height, diameter when the diameter changes from the previously listed diameter. For a taper I think first change, then last change would be fine. I looked at previous postings and Eagle Eye mentioned he might post something. Hopefully he will get back to us. In the meanwhile I’ve ordered a box of 20 180g Winchester cartridges which I’ll disassemble when they get here. If no one has posted anything by then I’ll draw up what I have and post it.
I got the 350 Legend cartridges. They’re Federal, not Winchester, but they should be fine. I’ve pasted three pictures in this post. The first and second are from the fancy software that draws bullets which are a representation of the bullet itself and the measurements I took from one of the Federals respectively. The first thing I should mention is that the software, or my lack of skill using it, put a little q-tip hair at the very tip of the bullet. I think that’s what that “3 degree draft” means. Maybe someone more fluent with the software could enlighten us as to what that’s about. Anyway what it comes down to as far as the sketch goes is that it’s actually 0.8685″ long and not 0.8711″ long. So with the caveats out of the way the third picture is a photo of the disassembled cartridge with all the components. I tried matching the powder to all those I have and the closest it resembles to is H4895. The weight is 26.3 grains. Turning our attention to the case and bullet, I positioned the bullet so that it is close to where it would be if it were inside the case. If you look closely at the bullet you can see the line left by the top of the case from where the bullet was seated. The other thing is that the cannelure in the case is just north of the curve at the bottom of the bullet which makes sense. I measured one of the cartridges and it came out to 2.1895. Using my measurements and a case length of 1.710 we get 2.1965 which is a difference of 0.007 so they are pretty good, I’d say.
charlesward
I am not familiar with your bullet design software but when manufacturing cast metal parts, probally cast bullets too, draft refers to a slight taper or belveling of the sides of the parts to aid in removing the part from a mould. Hope you this will help. By the way, what is this software and where do you get it? While reading the forums I have seen it refered to various times. If you do not have to mortage the house to pay for it I would like to have acess to it too.
Taking another step back and comparing C357-186-TC-2 and the commercial bullet, P355-180-2, it appears that the commercial bullet nose is actually longer. I’ve read, and experienced, that if you don’t have a long enough cartridge in an AR you end up with too much space between the end of the bullet and the ramp/chamber resulting in more possibility that the cartridge will veer and jam on the barrel ramps or somewhere half way between the ramps and the end of the chamber. So I think we’ve got it right with the nose length.
Now all we need are for more people to sign up!SwedeNelson
Received this in my e-mail – passing it on.
Evening Al,
I just ran the Quick Load data regarding 5744 powder identification in the 350 legend factory cases.
Loading SGT York’s measured factory bullet intel, and putting in the 5744 powder intel yields the attached load prediction. Quick Load comes back with a very unsafe load combination with around 80,000 psi predicted for an ~ 62,300 max psi cartridge.I have attached said Quick Load data prediction scan for you to look at. I’ve checked the data twice, and I don’t believe that I have made an error in the information inputs taken from the 350 Legend forum topic.
26 or 26.3 Gr of 5744 does indeed come back as a 110% compressed load. While the powder may look and measure similar to 5744 in size etc… It is my current belief at this point in the game that if someone takes the latest forum load data note as gospel, and loads that combination… the results just might not be good.Thought that I had possibly better say something… Is there a way to contact Federal, and actually confirm the actual powder or at least the burn rate on the powder compared to 5744 that they are using…?
At this point I would rather possibly somehow be wrong, and proven so than say nothing and have something happen.
http://noebulletmoldpix.com/pictures/alpictures/350load.jpg
Thanks
Mike B.As always use listed load data at your own risk!
Always start with reduced loads.NOE Bullet Moulds
Al NelsonAnd that is why I said a version of it. But it is quickload. Not always accurate. I have run the 5744 to 25grs in a ladder test and the primers were just starting to go flat. This was with a 200gr Lee bullet.
Now the factory Federal. They expanded the case head so bad that the brass is unusable. It is way over pressure for at least my gun.
This cartridge is really getting a pain to use in a AR. Bolt guns not so much. The AR guns need the gas to make it run reliable. Only way to get there is load at a high charge weight.
I can not remember if I posted this here. The factory Federal I have seem to be over pressure. All of the ones I have shot the brass is junk. It had ejector swipes and the primers can be pushed in by finger pressure. The case heads expanded WAY too much for the original firing. I took it for being Federal brass as it seems to happen in other cal. using them. But looking at that quikload I feel it is the reason for the expanded case heads.
Full.Lead.Taco
I believe they overcrimped some of their loads creating a headspace issue.
I can not remember if I posted this here. The factory Federal I have seem to be over pressure. All of the ones I have shot the brass is junk. It had ejector swipes and the primers can be pushed in by finger pressure. The case heads expanded WAY too much for the original firing. I took it for being Federal brass as it seems to happen in other cal. using them. But looking at that quikload I feel it is the reason for the expanded case heads.
kennethey
Sorry for not keeping up with the post. Life just got busy.
I just built a rifle in a modified neck up .358 Legend. PTG makes a reamer which was renamed the 358 AR. I converted a Savage Axis from 223 to 358. No mag or feed ramp mods where made.
Video can be seen here https://youtu.be/S0kX2ADI15sThe barrel is a 357 Bore Black Hole Weaponry 1-11 twist. I definitely think Winchester screwed up and I found the Hornady FTX bullets to work awesome with H110 and Little Gun powder. Achieved near quarter MOA with the new rifle. With this said I really think the bullet design should imitate the FTX bullets. A Spire point with small FN. Weight range 180 to 210 grain. If you add a small pin HP itll expand great. Another idea would be Re-creating the old Lyman Composit mold. So we can cast soft lead cores and a Harder alloy body. A TC design like listed above will work. H4198 will produce enough pressure to cycle an AR action and reduce velocities if you want subsonic with a 200+gr Cast bullet. Keep with a 357 and 355 option. Starline Brass is still superior for reliable feeding. Winchester and Federal brass are still to thick in my opinion
tommeboy
charlesward
SwedeNelson
kennethey
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