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jonasbjork
Based on the initial discussion in the thread below, I am looking for interested parties to fill the list for a NOE buy if possible.
100gn.
Plainbase.
No lube groove for powder coating.
RN/spitzer type for feeding in semiautomatic.
Specs outlined, but not finished (true cast bullet drawing and .223/Wylde chamber consideration appreciated).This is a jacketed 100gn that I extrapolated some rough measurements from:
jonasbjork
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troymesa
The non-lube groove versions will be in the store under the HTC section. I believe the .225’s are done and Al said he hopes to get the .226 sizes listed and discount codes out today. Stay tuned!
Thanks! Had a little trouble logging in to my account called the shop and Al helped me out. Done!
AlvinYork
I ran the other powders suggested
Psi is at 7″
Fps at 16″ (the barrel length)Pwdr. Chg. Psi. Fps
H110. 7. 6445. 1112
1680. 8.2. 6211. 1109
Unique. 3.9. 4688. 1116
Re7. 8.3. 6328. 1115
Bluedot. 5. 5859. 1113
Hs6. 4.5. 4922. 1101
I4198. 7.9. 6211. 1116
H4198. 8.1. 6094. 1107
Herco. 4.1. 4922. 1113I also redid those first three as I was reading the pressure off of a minimized window
Lil Gun. 6.6. 6328. 1112
H322. 9.4. 6211. 1108
I4955. 13.2. 6094. 1107So looks like Lil Gun and 110 are the highest pressures at 7″ although this enduron stuff might make up in volume what it lacks in pressure
lloydsmale
do you know if the 8k to run the action is an @ or a minimum? I wonder too what a reduced power wolf buffer spring would do to help? Id be careful with lil gun. Its a very unstable powder at top end pressures. It goes from mild to wild with just a 1/2 grain increase and id worry that it might not work well at lower pressures either. I would have to say that to start with powders like 1680, re7, and 4198 show me the most potential according to your chart. there close and it takes more of it to go higher which would mean that although were not getting much more pressure we would get more gas due to the fact theres more powder being burned. Just wild uneducated guess though. I do sure hope that if someone else finds the secret recipe he shares it instead of starting an ammo company :
Keep in mind too that this bullet will be long!! Lots of resistance down the barrel. Add to that powder coating actually raises pressures slightly because it isn’t as slick as lubed lead or a jacketed bullet. At least the guys in the pc section of cast bullets have told me so. Keep in mind too were only about 150 psi short and that isn’t much in a rifle case. I guess I will start with your data. Pc the bullets, cast them out of something soft (heavy) and use the lee factory crimp die to put a good firm crimp on them to get the pressure peaking quicker in the barrel. That and probably will tray a lighter buffer spring or even clipping a coil of a standard one. 
Full.Lead.Taco
What if we do it backwards from traditional thinking subs and go with a really slow powder? Maybe like:
14-16 gr H4831
16.5 gr Retumbo
16 gr H1000
18 gr H50BMGSome of the velocity estimations will be off due to the long bearing surface and the powder coating. Whether that makes it faster or slower, I am not sure–but testing will be the only way to know.
ive thought that way too but was thinking on something a bit faster burning then the extream ones. Ive got some ball wc852 which has been kind of a dud powder for me finding accuracy. Its a surplus ball powder thats suppose to have a burning rate close to 4350/4831. closest commercial powder would be h414. Ive even thought of trying dulex loads with a slow powder using a grain or two of bullseye to light it off better but bottom line is if I can load it progressively I wouldn’t fool with it. Might just have to save my pennys and buy one of those ruger ranch americans.
Id be careful with lil gun. Its a very unstable powder at top end pressures. It goes from mild to wild with just a 1/2 grain increase
That’s what makes it so much fun! Seriously, I pretty much just use it for the sub 300 blk and not much else. So I’ve got that down pretty good.
When I get a chance I’ll plug these in and see what we get.
14-16 gr H4831
16.5 gr Retumbo
16 gr H1000
18 gr H50BMGFull.Lead.Taco
Here ya go fellas. Hot off the press!
My empirical testing (charge and try, that is) using my ProChrono chronograph and
the values I got from Quickload is what led me to think 8k psi was the threshold to cycle an AR.
It is, for my gun. I’m not sure it would be for every gun but I would bet it’s in the ballpark.I used another feature of Quickload that’ll give you incremental charges before and
after your target charge. The Step% column tells you where you are as far as charge
goes.
I used the largest NOE 223 Remington in the NOE bullet file, then altered the characteristics
by hand in the screen. So the bullet was 100g, 1 inch long. The “Bullet :” line is the
bullet I started with.
This only shows psi max and psi @ muzzle. I went ahead and did the pressure at 7 inches
like I was before for the target charge. You can sorta extrapolate from there.
One thing I noticed was that the percentage of the charge burnt (Prop.Burnt column)
from only 1/3 to 1/2 of the charge is burnt. Not too efficient use of the powder, I guess.Cartridge : .223 Rem. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .224, 75, NOE 224-75-FN(BT)
Useable Case Capaci: 23.825 grain H2O = 1.547 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 16.0 inch = 406.4 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4831Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms-20.0 56 12.00 938 195 6349 2542 37.4 2.696
-18.0 58 12.30 961 205 6672 2668 38.3 2.638
-16.0 59 12.60 983 215 7009 2798 39.3 2.582
-14.0 60 12.90 1006 225 7362 2932 40.2 2.528
-12.0 62 13.20 1029 235 7730 3071 41.2 2.475
-10.0 63 13.50 1053 246 8114 3214 42.2 2.423
-08.0 65 13.80 1076 257 8516 3361 43.2 2.372
-06.0 66 14.10 1101 269 8935 3513 44.2 2.323
-04.0 67 14.40 1125 281 9373 3669 45.2 2.275
-02.0 69 14.70 1150 293 9831 3831 46.3 2.227
+00.0 70 15.00 1175 306 10308 3997 47.4 2.181 6797@7″
+02.0 72 15.30 1200 320 10807 4168 48.5 2.135
+04.0 73 15.60 1225 333 11328 4342 49.6 2.091
+06.0 74 15.90 1250 347 11871 4519 50.7 2.047
+08.0 76 16.20 1276 362 12440 4700 51.8 1.998
+10.0 77 16.50 1302 376 13032 4884 52.9 1.952Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 70 15.00 1279 363 12203 4799 56.7 2.014
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 70 15.00 1067 253 8602 3238 38.6 2.360Cartridge : .223 Rem. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .224, 75, NOE 224-75-FN(BT)
Useable Case Capaci: 23.825 grain H2O = 1.547 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 16.0 inch = 406.4 mm
Powder : Hodgdon RetumboPredicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms-20.0 62 13.60 852 161 5308 2102 28.8 2.893
-18.0 63 13.94 872 169 5574 2208 29.5 2.834
-16.0 65 14.28 893 177 5854 2319 30.2 2.777
-14.0 66 14.62 914 185 6147 2433 31.0 2.720
-12.0 68 14.96 935 194 6454 2552 31.8 2.665
-10.0 69 15.30 956 203 6776 2675 32.6 2.612
-08.0 71 15.64 978 212 7114 2802 33.4 2.559
-06.0 72 15.98 1000 222 7468 2934 34.3 2.507
-04.0 74 16.32 1023 232 7837 3071 35.1 2.456
-02.0 75 16.66 1046 243 8228 3213 36.0 2.408
+00.0 77 17.00 1069 254 8636 3359 37.0 2.359 5742@7″
+02.0 79 17.34 1093 265 9064 3511 37.9 2.311
+04.0 80 17.68 1117 277 9513 3668 38.9 2.264
+06.0 82 18.02 1142 290 9984 3831 39.9 2.218
+08.0 83 18.36 1167 302 10478 3999 40.9 2.173
+10.0 85 18.70 1192 316 10996 4173 41.9 2.128Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 77 17.00 1176 307 10261 4171 45.6 2.188
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 77 17.00 967 208 7198 2671 29.6 2.551Cartridge : .223 Rem. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .224, 75, NOE 224-75-FN(BT)
Useable Case Capaci: 23.825 grain H2O = 1.547 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 16.0 inch = 406.4 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H1000Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms-20.0 59 12.80 860 164 5476 2090 30.2 2.860
-18.0 60 13.12 880 172 5751 2194 30.9 2.801
-16.0 62 13.44 901 180 6040 2301 31.6 2.744
-14.0 63 13.76 922 189 6343 2412 32.4 2.688
-12.0 65 14.08 943 197 6659 2526 33.2 2.633
-10.0 66 14.40 964 207 6991 2645 34.0 2.579
-08.0 68 14.72 986 216 7339 2767 34.8 2.526
-06.0 69 15.04 1008 226 7703 2893 35.7 2.475
-04.0 71 15.36 1031 236 8084 3024 36.5 2.424
-02.0 72 15.68 1054 247 8484 3158 37.4 2.375
+00.0 74 16.00 1077 257 8903 3297 38.3 2.326 5625@7″
+02.0 75 16.32 1100 269 9341 3441 39.2 2.279
+04.0 77 16.64 1124 281 9801 3589 40.2 2.232
+06.0 78 16.96 1148 293 10283 3742 41.1 2.186
+08.0 80 17.28 1173 306 10788 3899 42.1 2.141
+10.0 81 17.60 1198 319 11318 4062 43.1 2.096Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 74 16.00 1179 309 10531 4037 46.6 2.160
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 74 16.00 977 212 7444 2655 31.0 2.514Cartridge : .223 Rem. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .224, 75, NOE 224-75-FN(BT)
Useable Case Capaci: 23.825 grain H2O = 1.547 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 16.0 inch = 406.4 mm
Powder : Hodgdon 50BMGPredicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms-20.0 65 14.40 816 148 5029 1872 22.2 2.948
-18.0 66 14.76 835 155 5286 1967 22.7 2.889
-16.0 68 15.12 855 162 5556 2065 23.3 2.830
-14.0 69 15.48 875 170 5838 2166 23.9 2.773
-12.0 71 15.84 895 178 6136 2272 24.5 2.717
-10.0 73 16.20 916 186 6450 2381 25.1 2.662
-08.0 74 16.56 937 195 6781 2495 25.8 2.607
-06.0 76 16.92 959 204 7132 2613 26.4 2.554
-04.0 77 17.28 981 214 7495 2735 27.1 2.501
-02.0 79 17.64 1003 224 7881 2861 27.8 2.450
+00.0 81 18.00 1026 234 8290 2992 28.5 2.399 5273@7″f
+02.0 82 18.36 1049 245 8719 3128 29.3 2.349
+04.0 84 18.72 1073 256 9170 3269 30.0 2.300
+06.0 86 19.08 1097 267 9645 3414 30.8 2.275
+08.0 87 19.44 1122 280 10148 3565 31.6 2.222
+10.0 89 19.80 1147 292 10677 3722 32.4 2.170Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 81 18.00 1128 282 9831 3711 35.1 2.229
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 81 18.00 928 191 6923 2381 22.9 2.645Full.Lead.Taco
Full.Lead.Taco
I think it may be a problem too but at least its there. even if a guy has to clean his gun every couple hundred rounds. Id definitely try a mag primer with them to get them burning better. Hope you guys don’t mind me copying and emailing myself this data.
yes, but they are very inefficient with % powder burned. I think it will work, not sure how messy it will be.
Hey Lloyd smale
There are two pressures for most of the postings : max chamber pressure, which occurs usually within the first 4 inches of bullet travel and muzzle pressure. What we’re after here is the pressure at 7 inches. That’s where the carbine gas port is drilled into the barrel, as you know, so, yes, the pressures look good but you’re probably looking at the max psi. That means a pistol gas system, 4 inches, should work fine. In order to get the psi at the 7 inches I have to make Quickload draw a graph and then I mouse over it at 7 inches to get the pressure. I did that for the target charge and added it to that row in the data but it didn’t format too well. Looking at it the H4831 has the best potential with 6797 psi @ 7 inches. Using a magnum primer is a great idea to help burn more of the powder but that may change the pressure, as you said, “from mild to wild”
As cornmastah stated , these numbers are for entertainment purposes only. Just like I decorate my Christmas tree with 80% AR receivers. . . I mean, gosh, what else would you do with em?
troymesa
AlvinYork
lloydsmale
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